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**Mnartgirl** · 12-09-2020, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by ODST-cg317 View Post

So myself and others have been wondering what the formula used to determine vehicle stats is. I have created a formula for my use that creates stats similar to the existing ones (I used the M4 Sherman & Tiger I as the base.)

But my question is, what's the formula you guys at Brickmania use if any to determine Vehicle stats? So this is done in several ways. The biggest thing to keep in mind is that of balancing the game. .
ow I am very aware that many battles from history are not balanced. Many tanks greatly outshine and out preform others.
But MBB is about a fast paced fun game that is accessible to all ages and able to picked up quickly.
We could get caught up in all the detail and have saving throws for side armor shots and so on...But we have done that in the past and there are dozens of other games that already dive deep into the hyper realistic side of combat. Don't get me wrong I love me some big box, heavy rule games with long sessions. Huge fan. But that was not the goal or intent of MBB.

I am super impressed with your formulas. Your formulas are basically spot. The changes you are seeing between your static formulas and the existing stats are from a few things. 1 balancing, 2 flavor, and 3 specific special features or scenario based. These are also listed in order of importance.
When making stats for new MBB units the first thing I do is research, I take note of armor thickness, weapons and so on.

Most of what happens is first looking into the main weapon (the biggest factor in AP) and seeing if any other units have similar or the same. We have so many stats made most of the time this is true. We then take into account how this vehicle preformed. (alot of help from Dan and the others here)
I look at then how it preforms in a base army of 150 RC points. is it going to be so overly powerful that others wont be able to compete against it? There is nothing more frustrating than going to a planned session of MBB to find that your opponent has broken the game. (Note there is a big difference between breaking the game and finding clever tactics and maneuvers with specific powerful units.)

Armor works the same way.

Attack points for airplanes are different. 1 additional Ap is added for every 2 guns. RC is based on all stats including payload. MP is based on Speed and range 330-369 =18 MP, 370-400 =19MP,
401-430 =20MP If range is over 1000 and it is appropriate for game play a bonus ability is added (Example KI-51 sonia )

After making stats for so long Dan and myself usually are able to plug things in fairly quickly.

Below is my Current Formula that I've been slowly adjusting to bring values more in line with official vehicles. This formula converts the real world Vehicle stats into MBB stats.
The example Sherman and Tiger stats where calculated using the info available on Wikipedia & Tanks-Encyclopedia.
All values are rounded to the nearest decimal,
AP*= (W1+W2+ect.)/10k Main weapon is the base of what the AP is set on. Machine guns and so on do not tend to factor in here, there are some units that this is not the case but in general.
DP= ((A*S°)÷10) ÷2 - This works.
MP**= (((Speed*Range)÷1k)÷1.6)+1
RC***= AP+DP+5 This is adjusted up or down on a sliding scale when needed to make overall armies more consistent. So if a unit has a special ability for example. Adjustments such as if two vehicles would cost the same but one has a significant advantage on one state vs. the other their RC cost will be adjusted. For example the Tiger I and the Ferdinand have the same RC with the formula but overall the tiger is going to be a stronger game unit. So it was adjusted to Tiger I -RC20 and Ferdinand being RC 19.

S°= 30°x2.5 60°x2 75°x1.5 90°x1 -
W1=mm*m/s
W2=(mm*m/s)/1.5
W3=(mm*m/s)/2

*MGs don't count towards AP
**Max MP is 16
***MGs count for 1RC
****S°: armor slope needs to be found either via educated guess or from a reference.

M4 Sherman (MG)
Armor: 51mm 75°x1.5 = 77mm
Weapon: 75mm 618m/s = 46.4k
Range/Speed: 48km/h 241km 11.6k
Produced: 49.2k

AP: 5 DP: 4 MP: 8 RC: 14 (15)

Tiger I
Armor: 120mm 90°x1 = 120mm
Weapon: 88mm 930m/s = 81.8k
Range/Speed: 45km/h 195km = 8.8k
Produced: 1.4k

AP: 8 DP: 6 MP: 7 RC: 19

The Produced value I use for army building so that's more fluff than anything.

That is the base of it. I would say this is a great way to let the community get stats. As play testing a new unit happens you will quickly discover weather it is OP or Balanced. Wonderful Job!

PLAY ON!!

Amanda

**Grasshopper Squadron** · 12-09-2020, 09:31 PM

Fascinating... and definitely not my side of expertise!

**ODST-cg317** · 12-09-2020, 10:01 PM

Thanks for the quick reply!
It's good to hear that I was going in the right direction. And even better to know some of the finer details. I hope leaving this here will be useful for others in the community!

**MBBChris** · 12-11-2020, 02:49 AM

Very impressive!

**Bananaman** · 01-05-2021, 08:21 PM

wow that is complicated good job!

**vegecethepilot** · 04-05-2021, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by ODST-cg317 View Post

|

AP* = W1/10k & (W2/10k ect.)

DP = ((A*S°)÷10) ÷2

MP = (((Speed*Range)÷1k)÷1.6)+1

RC = AP+DP+VM**

S°: 45°=1.5 60°=2 75°=1.5 90°=1
W1: Main Turreted = mm*m/s

Example Tank:

M1 Abrams
Armor: 175mm & 60° x2 = 350mm
Weapon: 105mm & 1501m/s = 157.6k
Range/Speed: 426km & 72km/h =30.7k

AP: 16 DP: 18 MP: 20 RC: 49

alright, I have tried my hand at this, but I am really unsure of it I execute it poorly.
I am making stats for the Sdkfz 234/2 Puma,
which has a kwk 39 5cm (50mm) cannon, which can fire shells at
835 m/s for PzGr & PzGr 39 shell types, as well as
1,180 m/s for the PzGr 40 shell and
1,130 m/s for the PzGr. 40/1 shell.

so theoretically, it should have between 835*50/10'000=4.175 (rounded to 4, which is fair) to 1180*50/10'000=5.9 (rounded to 6?)
for this one, I can agree that for the sake of fairness we should keep to 4.

then I went at the armour plating. roughly 30mm frontal on a 20-25 degree slope from vertical (I chose to take the value for 75 degrees), so
30*1.5/10/2=2.25 (rounded to 2, which is quite decent for an armored car)

but the one that makes my jaw drop...
it had a range of 1000km on road, or 600km off-road.... with a max speed of 90 Kph...
600x90/1000/1.6+1=34.75, that even rounded down to 34 makes a map-crossing vehicle. I didn't share the 1000k range calculation since I think we can say that most games would be conducted on terrain rather than roads.

there you see my issue.

**vegecethepilot** · 04-07-2021, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by ODST-cg317 View Post

[...]
**VM - Vehicle Modifier:
[...]
-Planes = TBD > 20
[...]

The calculations I made, based off the Hurricane and Stuka stats, make it seem like all points are counted towards the RC, instead of an addition.

The 2/2/3/20/4 of the hurricane make a total of 31, which is its RC cost.
The total of the Stuka Stats are equal to 27, compared to a 28 RP cost, but I think they factor the feature of being able to shoot behind as the extra point, totalling 28.

Disclamer: Please note that all stat information I "share" in this post are already publicly available for free from official Brickmania websites, but I left the stats nameless for it to be harder to identify individually. I encourage anyone to buy the goods directly from the Brickmania webstore, store or any official Brickmania reseller.

**ODST-cg317** · 08-08-2021, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by vegecethepilot View Post

alright, I have tried my hand at this, but I am really unsure of it I execute it poorly.
I am making stats for the Sdkfz 234/2 Puma,
which has a kwk 39 5cm (50mm) cannon, which can fire shells at
835 m/s for PzGr & PzGr 39 shell types, as well as
1,180 m/s for the PzGr 40 shell and
1,130 m/s for the PzGr. 40/1 shell.

so theoretically, it should have between 835*50/10'000=4.175 (rounded to 4, which is fair) to 1180*50/10'000=5.9 (rounded to 6?)
for this one, I can agree that for the sake of fairness we should keep to 4.

then I went at the armour plating. roughly 30mm frontal on a 20-25 degree slope from vertical (I chose to take the value for 75 degrees), so
30*1.5/10/2=2.25 (rounded to 2, which is quite decent for an armored car)

but the one that makes my jaw drop...
it had a range of 1000km on road, or 600km off-road.... with a max speed of 90 Kph...
600x90/1000/1.6+1=34.75, that even rounded down to 34 makes a map-crossing vehicle. I didn't share the 1000k range calculation since I think we can say that most games would be conducted on terrain rather than roads.

there you see my issue.

Sorry for the late reply.

So for some clarification on how I implement the formula on my end here's my Puma.

Sd. Kfz. 234/2 "Puma"
Armor: 30mm 82.5°x1.25 = 37.5mm
Weapon: 50mm & 835m/s = 41.8k
Range/Speed: 300km & 85km/h = 25.5k
Produced: 2,163

AP: 4 DP: 2 MP: 17 RC: 9
|

For the most part everything you did was the same on my end the only question is who's got the more accurate range & speed.

As a personal rule (house rule?) I set MP 18 as the hard Max for one movement, anything more than that and I assign a special ability to the unit along with an increase to RC as seen below.

M8 Greyhound
Armor: 19mm 60°x2 = 38mm
Weapon: 37mm 884m/s = 32.7k
Range/Speed: 89km/h 560km = 49.8k
Produced: 8.5k

AP: 3 DP: 2 MP: 16* RC: 10**

**Can move again after the shooting phase if not spotting or shooting.
***+2RC due to having a special.

Keep in mind that my formula and personal rules are all suggestions and not hard rules for MBB so ultimately do what seems fun for you and your group!

**ODST-cg317** · 12-09-2021, 01:05 PM

So I finally got around to making a formula for Aircraft, its definitely a departure from what Mnartgirl told me about aircraft stats (that I only reread just now, oops) but I feel comfortable sharing it with you all in its current state.
My original post has been modified to include said formula and the previous formula is now intended for surface vehicles.
Mnartgirl's post below mine does contain part of the official aircraft formula so feel free to use which ever one works best for you!

**Grasshopper Squadron** · 12-09-2021, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by ODST-cg317 View Post

So I finally got around to making a formula for Aircraft, its definitely a departure from what Mnartgirl told me about aircraft stats (that I only reread just now, oops) but I feel comfortable sharing it with you all in its current state.
My original post has been modified to include said formula and the previous formula is now intended for surface vehicles.
Mnartgirl's post below mine does contain part of the official aircraft formula so feel free to use which ever one works best for you!

This is very interesting. I'd be interested in working with you with my list of models to see what all we could come up with...

**ODST-cg317** · 12-12-2021, 09:05 PM

Aircraft and ground vehicle formulas are in a completed state now, i feel like a weight has been lifted lol.

If anyone wants any stats for a particular vehicle, but doesn't want to do the work, let me know!

Current request in progress.
- Open for requests.

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